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Should the Electoral College be abandoned?
in United States
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“We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.” - Benjamin Franklin So flat Earthers, man-made climate change deniers, and just science deniers.
I friended myself!
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Most recent ones:
George W. Bush (Jr.)
Donald J. Trump
If you honestly cannot see the idiotic choices the EC makes when overturning who the real votes preferred then you are just a die-hard Republican who needs better taste in politicians to be frank.
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The electoral college ensures that all states have equal say in the election.
With out the electoral college, candidates would only need to appeal to a few heavily populated areas leaving the less populated areas unrepresented.
The needs of rural folk should not be less important than that of urban folk when it comes to government representation.
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To help understand, in this picture, the highlighted counties house half of the country's population. A winning candidate needs to only appeal to these counties in order to win the election, if there were no electoral college. As you can see, that leaves a large percentage of the country lacking representation in the vote.
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Majority wins.
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Look at my map again and explain why the opinions of people who live in any of the non-highlighted areas (most of the country) should not matter.
What's good for a city dweller might not be good for a farmer.
You're saying the farmer's opinion should not matter, called that "democracy" but didn't explain why.
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@someone234
Keep in mind, the fact that the colonies votes didn't matter is why they revolted to begin with, and this is exactly why the founding fathers created the electoral college.
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What great overturns.
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Who said you can't question them?? You are free to amend the Bill of Rights, it has been done a number of times before. The procedure for amending it is included in the document.
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Swing states hold A LOT less of the population then half. Most candidates focus on this small population. Id rather have them campaign in where their is half of the population then less then half. If we wan't them to campaign equally in all states then are current system is not good. Not to mention a candidate only needs less then 25% of the nations votes to win.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rallies_for_the_Donald_Trump_presidential_campaign,_2016
Looks like he visited a LOT more than just swing states.
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Well Trump campaigned like a madman... because he's a madman.
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I don't think you understand what "swing state" means. A candidate will lose the election if he only wins the swing states.
These states are important because this is were the undecided voters are. The votes in other states DO matter, but candidates don't campaign there because those states are already certain who they are going to vote for. You don't spend millions of dollars trying to persuade someone who cannot be persuaded.
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The electoral collage is still based on votes.
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But it's about what political party the state is and they will more than likely get more votes that will go to the electoral college.
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@averyapro
It's designed to balance the voting power across all regions of the country so that more densely populated urban areas don't have higher voting power than the less dense rural areas.
The number of electoral votes is not based on party affiliation.
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@someone234
You're saying that people who live in MOST of the country should not have a say in the elections.
That's not democracy.
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Denser populated areas have less land per person but just because they own less land shouldn't reduce their voting power.
Checkmate, come and try again.
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I'll tell you again, we are not a democracy. Our founding fathers had the foresight to anticipate the problems of mob rule and designed this system to avoid the tyranny of the masses.
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I have given you the chance on other debates and you are not worth my time.
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I accept you concession.
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@someone234
Here is a map of the popular vote this past election. It looks a lot like my map from earlier showing how half the population lives in a small amount of dense areas. Clinton had more people voting for her, but those people represented a very small portion of the country.With a straight popular vote, people from the rural planes would need to rely on people from the big cities to know what's best for the entire country as a whole, and they simply don't. It's not fair to disregard the majority of the country just because the cities have more people in them.Again, everyone should be represented equally.
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Watch this, please.
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I know exactly what it is and why it's considered necessary because in the UK system which is the most straightforward to explain, the regions ARE what gets counted on voting day and the voting number is basically negligible, no one pays much attention to it usually.
The issue I have with it is twofold:
1) Exactly like with UKIP in the 2015 election [not 2017], a third party gets trampled on usually (or in this case a fourth party as SNP was the fourth place one that had 48 seats). To get third most votes and only one seat but a party that gets approximately a third of your votes gets 48 seats is just... Well, it shows the system NEEDS REPAIRING BADLY
2) Parties like green party and liberal democrats (sticking to the UK here) get undervoted... In other words the real support for those parties is most likely 300% AT LEAST of what the votes are but because people know their vote LITERALLY will not count if they vote for those parties and even worse it's IMPOSSIBLE to vote for some parties depending on the region you are if they don't bother having a candidate there... Well it's safe to say that parties like them then in turn get totally incapable of competing with the dominant ones as no media outlet or political fundign organisation wants to touch them since they know how worthless the endeavour would be.
So, you can explain all you want about why a region with less people should have equal say to one with literally 8x their population but I will never ever agree to that as it defeats the entire purpose of voting in the first place.
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The founding fathers, to a man, were brilliant statesmen. They formed a system of government that promotes liberty and freedom and laid the foundations for the most advanced country the world has ever known. I couldn't have done that, and judging from your posts thus far, neither could you nor anyone else on this forum.
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No, creating the most prosperous nation in history is not simply a matter of being in the right place at the right time.
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